Monday, March 27, 2006

All About Mormons

I was watching today the South Park in which a Mormon family moves into the neighborhood. I thought it was a riot. And interestingly enough, it's not as anti-Mormon as you might expect coming from South Park. It makes being a Mormon so much fun that even I would consider converting (Not). It's called All About Mormons.

20 Comments:

Blogger Mis-nagid said...

I haven't seen that one yet. Did you see the episode on Scientology that caused the brouhaha? I thought it was boring.

6:01 PM  
Blogger B. Spinoza said...

yes. I thought it had some funny parts, but I thought this one was funnier

6:16 PM  
Blogger Orthoprax said...

"We shouldn't be mad at Chef for leaving us, we should be mad at that fruity little club for scrambling his brains."

9:54 PM  
Blogger The Hedyot said...

I thought that that Mormon episode had a lot to do with Judaism. The line at the end where (IIRC) Kyle says something like, "Yeah, maybe it's a bunch of BS, but look how happy they all are!" is exactly how I think Judaism applies to many people. They do it because it makes them happy, and it doesn't really matter if it makes sense or not.

And I think that's a perfectly valid derech (as long as you don't fool yourself into thinking that you're committed to it becasue of it being true).

5:12 PM  
Blogger lakewoodyid said...

I checked the link.

Obviously, our claims are different. Sinai was in front of 600,000. (or whatever number you believe in, but it was in public)

And God himself spoke to us.

And the Luchos that were "michtav elokim" were visible to all and it was done twice.

Smith should have learnt from us. But he obviously couldn't copy our authenticy. But he sure did copy all our values.

7:03 PM  
Blogger B. Spinoza said...

hedyot,

they were also nice people.

One of the things I found interesting about the show was that it made you think whether the irrational mormans were not better off than the rational skeptics.

But in the end, I think you can be happy, nice and rational. And all things being equal it's better to be rational.

9:12 PM  
Blogger B. Spinoza said...

LY,

my point was a positive one, not negative. I wanted to point out that it is one's values that count more than the rationality of the person's beliefs.

But since you memtioned how superior you think Judaism's claims are, I will point out a few points.

First of all, all the claims that you mentioned are faith based. There is no evidence to support it.

Second of all, the mormons also claim there was a public revelation. The mormons claim that Jesus (who they claim is God) came to the native Americans in person.

Thirdly, it just goes to show you how gullible people can be, and therefore the mesorah is suspect. This is common sense

9:30 PM  
Blogger lakewoodyid said...

First of all, all the claims that you mentioned are faith based. There is no evidence to support it.

But it isn't laughable claims like on that video.

Second of all, the mormons also claim there was a public revelation. The mormons claim that Jesus (who they claim is God) came to the native Americans in person.

In front of 600,000 men + women and children?

Thirdly, it just goes to show you how gullible people can be, and therefore the mesorah is suspect. This is common sense

Good point. But throughout the generations, there were so many brilliant leaders - Geonim, rishonim etc.. People whose greatness shine still today, its tough to say they were all gullible.

12:35 PM  
Blogger B. Spinoza said...

>But it isn't laughable claims like on that video.

I don't know, Judaism is very hard to believe also. And is it something to be proud of that it isn't as crazy a Mormonism?

>In front of 600,000 men + women and children?

I don't know how many people, but I don't see how relevant that is. The 600,000 number makes it harder to believe if anything

>People whose greatness shine still today, its tough to say they were all gullible.

These people lived way after the time that the stories took place. They just believed what they were taught to believe. Some of them no doubt suspected the stories to be inaccurate but went along with it for the good of the people.

4:12 PM  
Blogger lakewoodyid said...

OK OK, no point in running around in circles. After all, I'm not a "Kiruv Clown", just a defender.

But your statement -

"Some of them no doubt suspected the stories to be inaccurate but went along with it for the good of the people."

you are framing some mighty gedolim with that. Can you back that up?

5:11 PM  
Blogger B. Spinoza said...

> OK OK, no point in running around in circles. After all, I'm not a "Kiruv Clown", just a defender.

I agree. There is no point in arguing. I don't expect to convince you. And you shouldn't expect to convince me.

>you are framing some mighty gedolim with that. Can you back that up?

not really. I don't have a signed confession :) I was just speculating. What I had in mind was the Rambam. he seems to clever and rational to believe some of the claims of judaism. So i was thinking that perhaps he recognized the value of the life style and wanted to preserve it instead of going against it. But like I said, I have no evidence to support this claim.

8:36 PM  
Blogger lakewoodyid said...

I'm sure you've heard this said about the Rambam;

"From Moshe to Moshe, there was no one like Moshe"

You know why?

Because -

"perhaps he recognized the value of the life style and wanted to preserve it instead of going against it."

Right.

Yad Hachazaka. 14 Monumental sections of the re-organization of jewish law.

Pirush Hamishneh.

All just to preserve a lifestlye.

You believe that?

10:17 PM  
Blogger B. Spinoza said...

>All just to preserve a lifestlye.

>You believe that?

you really believe in talking donkeys? My claim is much more believable :)

seriously, if he really thought a halachic way of living had great value, why would it be so strange that he dedicated his life to preserve it?

I am not making a strong claim. I am just saying it's possible.

10:43 PM  
Blogger lakewoodyid said...

>you really believe in talking donkeys?

Explain please -

"Vayiftach Hashem" Es Pi Ha'ason.

8:50 PM  
Blogger B. Spinoza said...

Rambam in Moreh Nevuchim says that the story of the talking donkey was a vision in a dream.

11:07 PM  
Blogger dbs said...

Yeah, not to mention 'Big Love'.

Seriously, the similarities in my mind are:

-Both require a suspension of disbelief.

-Both are practiced by rational, educated people.

-Both have very strong community aspects.

-Both with kick you out of the community if you don't go along with the belief system.

12:08 PM  
Blogger lakewoodyid said...

>Rambam in Moreh Nevuchim says that the story of the talking donkey was a vision in a dream.

Know where the rambam is?

11:53 PM  
Blogger Steg (dos iz nit der ┼íteg) said...

Mormons share Jewish values?

1:25 PM  
Blogger B. Spinoza said...

>Mormons share Jewish values?

sure, why not? I'm don't know too much about mormonism, but I assume they share some values with Jews, as do all humans

8:41 PM  
Blogger lakewoodyid said...

>Mormons share Jewish values?

At least jews something right......

9:46 PM  

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